The common case was just a smoking regime, but the real cause of divorce between Thierno Alassane Sall and Macky Sall is found in the Petrotim case. The former energy minister revealed this in an interview given to Les Echos. The interview, in which he returned to a large extent in both cases, with the position of the head of state on this issue. By condemning the current leadership of the state, the former curiosity says that we are far from the ideals of departure, such as "dekkal ngor", "homeland before the game". Worse, he notes that if the Wade regime does things at a traditional pace, Macky Sall will move at an industrial pace. The first part of the interview, which is rich in revelations …
Tierno Alassane Scarf : Today, we believe that Senegal's political commitment is not usually based on intangible universal values that go beyond the nations and political situations and which are solely for the nation's greatest interests and their long-standing historical significance. It is precisely for this reason that we believe that our biggest misfortune is not the lack of programs and political visions, but that the fact that everyone did not make reasoned references that are common to all and which makes some things unacceptable is unthinkable and that certain errors in the republic and unbearable.
But have you always defended it?
It has always been our credo. Remember that when talking about APA, we were talking mainly about "decal ngor", "fatherland before party", interrupted in relation to fundamental elements. In fact, nothing new is under the sun. And in fact there is nothing new. The great democracies of the world have a special feature that there are values that are not included in their statutes and laws, but which are made up of red lines that can not be crossed. And when we force people to cross these unrecorded honor codes, they resign. And this is not new, it's since the start of democracy in Greece. People have committed suicide far less than what we see in our countries. In this respect, our state is not sufficiently developed.
This is the reason why you abandon your resignation?
To a large extent yes. With enthusiasm we went to Apr. We believed in these great breakthrough ideals, democracy, decal ngor, the restoration of our country. Unfortunately, in practice, from the outset, we have understood the real-life Senegalese and Afrikaans' version, which consists of the separation of constitutions, the patrimonialization of the state and the unpardonable practice of some public services. just stay in power, without shame, without any respect and personality. What a gentleman does. All of this message was given to us soon enough. That's why I came out of government. Immediately afterwards, I joined Asecna to mark Sunday and show that I am not a politician in the sense that we are giving it.
And who explained your return to government?
Even the first time I went to April, it was not because it was the perfect solution. You have to learn to make a compromise, be flexible. Contrary to what people often accuse me, I have a lot of flexibility and understanding about the situation. April was not essentially a part of my heart. Since I am basically a person to the left. But I also understand that life is shaped by tolerance and patience so that we can gradually achieve the ideal we seek.
So, because of the compromise, do you return to government?
I went back to the government, thinking that nothing was too late and that we could still save the essential. I still had the illusion that some members were able to pull themselves together. I also think that the President of the Republic, as we separated, on the basis of the announcement of significant differences in opinion and the nature of some things, would understand that my character is dipped and that he, on his side, has things that he would accept more easily. Perhaps he also had the same reading for me that the passage of the desert made me more flexible and attractive. I believe that there is a significant break in this matter. Since from the first few months I had to understand that things did not change significantly, in the sense that government practices continued to evolve.
Do you think that sometimes you have to try to change things from the inside?
But, curiously, many guilty of me, among the most radical ones, that the government has gone too long. Life is made up of values, but especially from red lines that can not be crossed. We must understand that in our system the President of the Republic has all the powers. If you do not have the opportunity to listen, sharing the will, discovery, it's almost lost.
So the president does not listen and does not share?
The same conditions that I leave prove their solidity. I did not ask to drink the sea, but only to preserve the nation's best interests.
And do you believe that you are better off defending the interests of the nation than the president?
This is not a matter of weight. I want to follow the facts. There were facts; I was grateful he was grateful. What, in my opinion, is the best interests of the nation, I am free to believe in it as a citizen and politician.
The facts are that you resigned because we are giving Total block. What happend?
By the way, it's much more complicated than that. At the end of the story, it is said that there may have been a one-month period when I was very tense between the administration and the various points of the ministers, including the Total agreement, which is the straw that broke the camel's back. For example, another problem, for example, was the question of how to approve the conditions under which Timis left the block. So this is a different view of the whole set of things that make it impossible to live together.
In fact, the Total offer, as it was formulated, was much less interesting. Total was ranked 5ththcompared to Bp, Cosmos and others who were there. And the supply structure was much more attractive and even a step back from the contracts signed in 2011, 2009, 2004, even before oil sources. So, in a situation in which we soon became a gas and oil producer, we must say that the remaining blocks we have to negotiate with a more attractive rating. If we have to give it, we should not sell in conditions that are worse or worse than the conditions before discoveries. And I just ask you to compare, because the contracts are at the government site.
Are you accusing the president of selling state resources?
They again have invincible and intangible facts. You can freely choose items. The problem in Senegal directly is to limit the issue with Thierno Sall and Macky Sall. What I said to you is simple: I was given the opportunity to refuse to sign a contract that, in his opinion, was much less beneficial than contracts that existed and existed for a long time. I refused it, the president signed it, the prime minister confirmed it. This can be done by anyone. These intellectuals, at least some intellectuals, learn quickly, come to the facts. I heard a part from the left saying that we should stop discussing, speculating, while they have so much loaded the previous regimes on much less important issues. People need time to negotiate in both contracts. It is written in simple and simple French. See Petrotim, Article 22 of the contract, Far Limited, Sangomar Block and see Article 22 of the contract signed with Total, you will see the difference. This is Cem2's classroom mathematics. It's not about oil or gas; this is about sharing products. How much Senegal wins; how many wins the other When comparing offers, we see that the offer that was finally accepted was far behind the much better deals. And besides, this story is right for me, since Total shared the so-called, selling Petron 30%. That's what they said. We are a potential producer of oil, and everyone is starting to work. We do not have to deal with the weather when we were not attractive. But if we follow the current code, if we have to sell, sell at least the same existing conditions. This is not a minister's problem. This is a liability issue. Everyone is accountable to Senegal, before God and men.
Did you mention the circumstances of Timiso's exit, which could have been the exact reason for leaving, what happened to Timiso?
At first, there was a controversy over the situation in which Timis was left in our country with a license obtained in completely unlawful circumstances. Now it turned out that the circumstances in which Timis won was between the two presidential elections. And this has led Timis to use a contract that may have been retroactive since it was signed in March 2012, but it was dated January 17, 2012, although Petrotim was created on January 19, 2012, two days later.
You said that Timiso's case is more regrettable than the common thing …
Press releases have made it possible to hear a State Inspection report that I did not know when I was a minister. It is clear that Petrotim has benefited from a contract signed in 2012, signed between two stages, but renewed on January 17, 2012. Petrotim was set up on January 19th. So when we signed the contract, Petrotim did not exist. Petrotim and Petroasia, his parent company, were found to have just been born and had neither technical capabilities nor financial opportunities. The report made it very clear. But at that time I did not have all the elements. I found out about the situation by looking at Timiso's file and watching Timiso's work for a year and a half. Nothing has been invested and wanting to leave in conditions when she lay down, it seemed to me that it was something that should not be accepted. Even if we are a poor country, we want our oil to be used by those who have really made investments in real tasks for the discovery of oil or gas, and not for fictitious companies that have come to financial speculation.
Stated by the authorities; because the general government consolidation report I spoke on is dated September 2012. And Petrotim continued to be in our oil until 2017. And Timiss wanted to go through circumstances that could justify the confidentiality of the clause, which the contractor wants to implement a posteriori. These are the financial conditions that Senegal should know. The state must be required to disclose the conditions under which Petrotim was held.
As a former minister you know these conditions. Why do not you disclose them?
I know this as a minister, I could not accept these conditions. And these operations are not confidential. The contract, the financial terms, the financial obligations of each party, is written. When someone has to give up, their obligations towards the state or other parties, its potential benefits … are based on the achievements and commitments of this company, which is firm and indisputable. But Timiso did not even have to benefit from the contract, because it was obtained in unlawful circumstances. To escape the important time, it seems to me that it is not in Senegal's interest. And that's why, in April, I refused to give my consent, because when I left the company, he could only approve the minister on conditions. It's not a president, not to mention another. But we need to monitor the next law to make sure we do not remove the minister's blocking options. (Laughter)
You are talking about the timbale with which Timis left. How much is she
It should normally be publicly available. This is not a privacy clause. Senegal has to be investigated. As many say that we do not know, it's time for those who know and have a duty to say what it is.
Obviously, you know what?
I have information. I will go to them when the time comes. I have always said that we have to set up a parliamentary inquiry commission that asks citizens. Those who say that we do not know in good faith or abusively, or that nothing has happened, that they stop it and that the National Assembly or prosecutor takes up this matter. It's time It's not an issue for elections. This is a question of defense of Senegal's interests in all circumstances and always. We have to fight.
At the height of the Timiş hull you were a minister. You defended the same principles and attitudes?
At that time, and it is convenient for me to say this, in August 2016, one after the other, after interviews with my colleagues Otman Gind and Rets Bayeu Oumar Guèye (Southern Fm), and a little earlier, along with the Tfm denominations, "the city case "(Mamoudou Ibra Kane), in essence, I said that if I was given the opportunity to see that there are reasons to question these treaties, I would question them. It has always been my opinion. At this stage it is also possible to check each Senegal. What's more, in February 2016, I mentioned the intangible principle for the "Les Affaires de la Cité" program. I said that the execution of a manifestly unlawful order, even in the army, is participation. So, here are the lines that I have always drawn. Now I could not accept what I did not know at that time and did not know. As I questioned the main officials around me, some of whom were arrested at the State Inspectorate, they said they did not know. Or they told me that Petrotimo is a sad banal. No one has ever said that at that moment there was Tullow Oil, who had filed a complaint with the Minister for Energy about why Petrotim had to accept the contract, but even they were negotiating. Nobody knew that Ige was listened to because of the suspicion of this issue. Never … It was when the problem began to rise, and former Prime Minister (Abdoul Mbaye) said that he was given the opportunity to sign false information that my attention was being paid and that I started doing research in and of myself. And while I left the government, believe me, I did not know that Ige was gone. I heard for the first time that it was through the press.
Do you blame some of your former employees for lack of loyalty?
In any case, I may have been in a position to act, which I will have to handle today, but in good faith, because it was because I was not given the right information.
If you had the right information what would you do?
What I do …
This is obvious. Of course, nobody can claim to be responsible for Petrotim's case. Since March and April (2017) this was a major obstacle, it is the main reason for divorce. The common case is, if I can say, a smoke panel to mask the real cause.
Prime Minister, your former boss, speaks of incompetence ….
It makes me smile … there are notes that do not deserve a response. I can say that I am an international civil aviation auditor. I checked some of the world's largest civil aviation countries, in Asia and Europe. People who know me in civil aviation respect all my peers. And when I developed Macky Sall, I made a small contribution, but I still contributed. Unlike those who were under the other sky, while they were Macky Sall's closest friends.
Are you talking about the prime minister who was outside Senegal?
(Silence). I left it to the Senegalese people to assess the rest … But the underlying cause of our divorce is not that of our differences as to how to maintain the country. And again, our national system suggests that the head of state has almost divine authority and that no one should obey him, he should not react or disagree with him. Former United States Secretary of State did not end, because he had deep differences with President Trump. In England, since there was the prime minister, how many departures had been? Nicolas Hulots is in France. In this world, first, God answers his conscience and laws, and then men, regardless of their qualities. How to keep asylum, as I often said here behind the President of the Republic, to say that he was the one who asked me to do so is no longer acceptable.
When institutions sell public resources, they do this no betrayal at the top?
There attorneys speak. After the lawyers, people will appreciate.